Is it ok to post unedited rp logs?

[Runt]

I feel you Runt. From these forums people think they have me all figured out. It does suck. I'm more likely to debate whether it's good form to post "Is this good" type threads at all though.

Those threads do kind of make me chuckle. If you walk away from it, shaking your head in disbelief and vowing to never return, then yeah I'd say it was bad roleplay.

[Eta]

What I'm saying is that if you cannot stand up to criticism, and if you are so unwilling to just ignore others if they insult you, then you shouldn't be reading forums in the first place. Online sites like this are notorious for that kind of behavior. The fact that this one is dedicated to discussing things that happen in another online venue just makes it all the more likely that these critiques will happen.

Constructive criticism or unproductive? Unbiased or biased to the point where it is simply more so about humiliating and hurting another? And yes, these certain critiques may happen, but I and many others don't play along with it. Which is wrong that makes it right or the norm, or in better terms, for the better? Name someone publicly where it could very well humiliate them or change the name and just keep on the actual point of the topic?

You really can't see the difference between one to one and in world/smaller group criticism compared to splashed all over the forums publicly laughing at someone's so called inadequacy in their RP ability?

People hide behind the anonymity of the internet, and therefore it is well established that they become more intolerant and hurtful in the expression of their ideas. It happens all the time in SL, just as it does here. There's also the whole cultural differences thing going on, where what might be normal conversation in one culture comes off as rude and insulting in another.

Some do, but not all do. To build and maintain a common goal/community, then I think you will find that if everyone behaved so intolerant and hurtful towards others so blatantly so, then then what do you think this site would actually become. Your argument is dim wittingly flawed. And I do think that many cultures are able to see and understand the basic psychology behind human nature, and even the animal kingdom regarding ostracizing/ humiliating another. Sounds more like to me that you are just making up a far fetched excuse to account for down right asshattery where it can be so very easily avoided. Just a tiny bit of thought and care for another by keeping their sl name out of it. What is so hard about that and to comprehend?

If it bothers you so much (and here is the requisite disclaimer that YOU doesn't mean YOU specifically), then stop reading those threads, or stop coming here, or stop rping, or do one of the other hundred things you can do to keep yourself being bothered by it. Trying to change everyone else, or making a million rules about other people's behavior just so that you aren't offended is a losing effort, and one that will cause you much stress in your life.

I, nor others whom have a difference in opinion to you are not trying to change "everyone else" by far. Many people here do not agree with you, but so what? Stating how we all think and feel to this topic is simply answering the topic no? How is it making a million rules lol? You are stating how you feel and perhaps stating that the rule should be that people's SL names is fine to post out in here no? How contradictory in your argument! Based upon your argument, then why don't YOU stop trying to change everyone else who disagrees with you then. Plus,I have never been offended in this said topic/issue, but i can actually give a damn and actually put myself in other people's shoes, not wishing such a thing upon other people. As for stress?? seriously????? Forum topics, arguments and debate online?? You do not know the real meaning of stress if you think this is so. It really does not hurt to have a standard, where you are able to draw a line and have some sort of care for other people ya know.

[Festus]

Well, I guess, Eta, that my point is just going to be lost on you. And I did not once insult you (and that is specifically YOU) so why you resort to doing that to prove your point that we shouldn't be insulting each other, I just don't know.

I have never once said that it's ok to insult and ridicule. I don't condone that kind of behavior, either rl, sl, or here. My whole point is, that this is a discussion board, and when logs are posted for discussion, even if it is to point out poor examples of rp, many people will discuss inteligently, but there will always be some who resort to the childish behavior. In order to keep this from happening, you censor what can and cannot be posted. Which takes away from the fact that this is mainly a rp discussion forum.

There are many topics here that get flaming posts, page after page in some cases. Should we also make a rule about those topics, say....no threads about politics, or religion? Should we remove the "reviews" section completely, in case someone in a sim that has a negative review is insulted by that? That's happened before.

And criticism and judgment are very subjective. People will disgree on whether it's constructive or not. You cannot define what is or isn't.

[Eta]

There are way too many thin-skinned, over sensitive people who cannot stand their personal selves held up to any kind of scrutiny. They tend to take it as a personal affront, and can't see it for what it really is, just a game and an online forum that has absolutely NOTHING to do with their real life.

Well, I guess, Eta, that my point is just going to be lost on you. And I did not once insult you (and that is specifically YOU) so why you resort to doing that to prove your point that we shouldn't be insulting each other, I just don't know.

Making a point lets just say.

I have never once said that it's ok to insult and ridicule. I don't condone that kind of behavior, either rl, sl, or here. My whole point is, that this is a discussion board, and when logs are posted for discussion, even if it is to point out poor examples of rp, many people will discuss inteligently, . . .

We can discuss points without any need for posting out someone's SL name in this public forum. I have seen many people simply insult and piss take stating things like "the worst Rp ever seen" or "Would run a mile from this person." Where is the real intelligence in that, other than down right hurtful and insulting remarks about a person who may not even be aware or if so, have wished or agreed to be put up on the chopping block like that?

.. .but there will always be some who resort to the childish behavior. In order to keep this from happening, you censor what can and cannot be posted. Which takes away from the fact that this is mainly a rp discussion forum.

C'mon now. Think about it. Posting a log where a persons name is changed/hidden from identity has any baring upon a RP discussion?

There are many topics here that get flaming posts, page after page in some cases. Should we also make a rule about those topics, say....no threads about politics, or religion? Should we remove the "reviews" section completely, in case someone in a sim that has a negative review is insulted by that? That's happened before.

No. Did I say that? You really think and or even believe that stating my belief is it is better to keep peoples SL names out of logs that are posted publicly, unless they agree to it, is saying that no politics or religious topics should be discussed either ? Far fetched and stretched beyond belief. Just who do you think you are kidding with that sort of bizarre equation? Seen that a few times, I dun buy it.

And criticism and judgment are very subjective. People will disgree on whether it's constructive or not. You cannot define what is or isn't.

You just did define though, you said it was very subjective. What I can define, is that I for one feel that there is no need what so ever to put peoples SL names out in public logs on the forums for people to rip apart regarding their RP. It has no place or need to be involved in discussion about RP, other than to possibly hurt someone. Withold their rl name and what damage does it do to the discussion? Nothing. Throw their name out there and it can lead to someone feeling humiliated, friends upset and off putting to onlookers or new people visiting here. So use ya noggins, common sense and decency. Politics and religion censorship bs my ass

[Carter]

As has been said.. whats your motivation in doing it

a) Seeking justification from your Gorum buddies the other person is an arsehole and you are right
b) Trying to publicly and subtly flame somebody or a sim because you didnt like something

This seems to be about 90% of the reasons why people post RP logs on this forum

the remaining 10% seem to do it for

c) Arent I a fantastic Rper.. look how brilliant I am.. come worship and heap praise on me
d) This is funny.. wanted to share
e) This was interesting.. it may help others

Unfortunately both d) and e) are very much in the minority in this forum

[Alice McConnell]

In answer to the original question: I'd say it would be best to remove the name of the other person(s) and replace them with a XXXX or YYYY etc. Sure, they may still learn of it and get mad, but I suppose it would still be a good thing to do.

As has been said.. whats your motivation in doing it

a) Seeking justification from your Gorum buddies the other person is an arsehole and you are right
b) Trying to publicly and subtly flame somebody or a sim because you didnt like something

This seems to be about 90% of the reasons why people post RP logs on this forum

the remaining 10% seem to do it for

c) Arent I a fantastic Rper.. look how brilliant I am.. come worship and heap praise on me
d) This is funny.. wanted to share
e) This was interesting.. it may help others

Unfortunately both d) and e) are very much in the minority in this forum

Personally, I think people underestimate the element of e) that can come into play in a discussion about this sort of thing, even when the motives are a) or b). I noticed that on the older incarnations of this forum, with the discussions with Stephan, October and others. Someone posted a log (no name changes), often out of frustration, anger, and such. But then we started discussing it, and, as an admin (at the time) I found those discussions useful. We generally reached a consensus, more or less. Sometimes one of the parties involved came on, and it got a bit emotional. But... we didn't consider that bad, back then. I guess we felt it was only justice.

Shaun, the creator of a predecessor of this forum, created it in large part to fight 'unfair' roleplaying and admining. Naming and shaming bad admins/sim owners and such was part of the mission. Logs, especially complete and unaltered ones, do not lie. If someone is being stupid or nasty in them, they show it. Is that bad? Maybe it isn't very nice. No one likes to be publicly shamed. It can lead to flames and all that. But it isn't automatically unethical.

The goals and standards of this forum have changed. They are no longer meant to 'get justice' for unfairly treated RP-ers or as a way of punishing unfair ones. Compared to the 'mores' of the forum now, the standards back then seem harsh, rough and a recipy for drama (though, strangely, the level of drama and issues now is not significantly lower than it was back then). But the forums being as they are now, and the users of the forum having the preferences they have, I do not believe that posting logs just to shame people is going to make a person very popular.

[Aseptimus]

Main chat, public, in character RP is up for scrutiny and discussion in my opinion. This might surprise people who know me because I notoriously hate people scrutinizing my writing. I didn't even want to post my character backstory for this reason and I did get IMs that insulted the writing. Regularly people will post nasty comments here about the evils of paragraphs, narratives and sex in main chat and people tell me how to write so that they'll deign to RP with me. So yeah, I get it. It doesn't feel nice to be insulted. Would it be better if my RP was represented by XXXXX? No, I don't see how that affords me any extra dignity.

What I say in character, in main chat, is up for the scrutiny
of all in chat range. I've given permission by posting there for people to know I said it and discuss it.

Besides, guys, if we can't discuss RP what will we do here? Debate kneeling for the 467876432456th time?

I say yes, it is fine, with two caveats:

1. As Ceri said, the right of reply and at least of knowing what you have written is being displayed somewhere
2. As Sita said, public and private RP are two different creatures. This rule should only permit public RP to be displayed

I don't see any need to censor names - the person who wrote it will know it was their RP anyway.

[Mat]

I have noticed the change in the forum community in the short while I have been on these new boards. While I think posting the names in the chat log is a responsible and entertaining thing to do, I do not want to do so in a community who does not enjoy that sort of thing either.

The way that I see it there is one of two things going on. 1. vocal people are using forum alts to really mark up the votes in the no category or 2. That this community like alice has said has really shifted. Either way I will not post further logs with names unless atleast 50% of the community likes that sort of thing. If that sort of posting is not what the majority of the community desires here, perhaps it is time to form a community based on that sort of activity. Again do not want to expend effort if it is not enjoyed by the community at hand.

[...]

I would post up RP with names - but only if I had the permission from all involved. If I didn't have permission I'd not post it at all. For stuff that was particularly enjoyable/funny anyway.

As for stuff I had issues with - If I wanted to discuss a specific scenario that I'd experienced in world, I'd write out the scenario, rather than copy/pasting the roleplay. No need to drag people's names through the mud for gratification when what you actually want to discuss is a scenario rather than a particular person. If a particular person got on my nerves in RP so much I didn't want to play with them again, I'd just avoid them in RP.

[Kyss]

Yes, it is ok. But only with permission of any person involved. If someone posted a log of mine without permission I would feel violated. I would only post logs or even quotes in my pics (if I did that sort of thing) after asking whoever was quoted.
To me thats just common sense and courtesy.
Even if there was a problem and logs were asked to be seen. I would inform the offending party that the logs have been requested and they were being released.