Comprimising your Character in SL Gor

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Compromising your Character in SL Gor?

Absolutely necessary in SL
7
15%
Absolutely necessary in SL
7
15%
Only if the other player is super hawt.
2
4%
Only if the other player is super hawt.
2
4%
Only if I'm /really/ bored.
2
4%
Only if I'm /really/ bored.
2
4%
Never! You're doing it wrong!
12
26%
Never! You're doing it wrong!
12
26%
 
Total votes: 46
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Glaucon
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Re: Comprimising your Character in SL Gor

Postby Glaucon » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:27 pm

Hmmm, I think that the Ubar's reason for being there was entirely plausible. It would be a bit like Kim Jong-un travelling over to go sling insults over the fence of the White House by himself, after having been denied entry. :P I really could see Marlenus do it. :roll:

Anyway... I guess I am a bit of a snob too. I don't mind having no action/RP for a while or not being able to advance a story, just because it would make more sense for my character (up to a point, of course). But really... you are free to determine OOC things as long as they don't impact others (aren't power/metagaming), and with a bit of creativity, there is usually something you can do that way to make the less obvious RP encounters.

Doing such stuff OOCly doesn't mean you 'break character'. Even if you were to take up your gorean character, and drop them in in Teletubby Land to go meet up with Tinkywinky and Lala, you would not necessarily be breaking character (though their RP history would become something of a scary tale, I admit).

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Re: Comprimising your Character in SL Gor

Postby Victor. » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:42 pm

Glaucon wrote:Hmmm, I think that the Ubar's reason for being there was entirely plausible. It would be a bit like Kim Jong-un travelling over to go sling insults over the fence of the White House by himself, after having been denied entry. :P I really could see Marlenus do it. :roll:

Anyway... I guess I am a bit of a snob too. I don't mind having no action/RP for a while or not being able to advance a story, just because it would make more sense for my character (up to a point, of course). But really... you are free to determine OOC things as long as they don't impact others (aren't power/metagaming), and with a bit of creativity, there is usually something you can do that way to make the less obvious RP encounters.

Doing such stuff OOCly doesn't mean you 'break character'. Even if you were to take up your gorean character, and drop them in in Teletubby Land to go meet up with Tinkywinky and Lala, you would not necessarily be breaking character (though their RP history would become something of a scary tale, I admit).

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Our homie Pope Benedict XVI at the bottom right.. *throws him a catholic gang sign*

About compromising - I think it's usually the smartest way to be in a sim with a character that has reasonable business to be there to begin with.

I'd not play a Kur in the Tahari who hides away in desert caves all day long with the declared goal of never being caught or even as much as seen by the general population.

Now why would I do that? I'd go as far as saying anchoritism is the single most self-sabotaging trait one could give a character not only in SL but in roleplay in general.

So, for the sake of your own fun - don't be a stranger!
Eifersucht ist eine Leidenschaft, die mit Eifer sucht, was Leiden schafft. // Jealousy is a passion, seeking zealously what causes suffering. Franz Grillparzer
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Re: Comprimising your Character in SL Gor

Postby Darby Bradley » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:35 pm

Thanks for all of the replies! They have been so varied and have given me lots of different ideas!
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Re: Comprimising your Character in SL Gor

Postby Architeuthis » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:23 pm

@ Keiser: Just a side comment about your allergy to non BTB Roleplay in SL Gor...I have seen some really poor unGorean roleplay in BTB Gor lately too. I find its actually worse than GE in the sense that there is the same amount of whining and foolishness only in BTB most of it comes from people who can't fight.

And agreed with Darby, some really good comments in this thread.
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Keiser Koba
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Re: Comprimising your Character in SL Gor

Postby Keiser Koba » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:20 pm

Blackwolf wrote:@ Keiser: Just a side comment about your allergy to non BTB Roleplay in SL Gor...I have seen some really poor unGorean roleplay in BTB Gor lately too. I find its actually worse than GE in the sense that there is the same amount of whining and foolishness only in BTB most of it comes from people who can't fight.

And agreed with Darby, some really good comments in this thread.

Yeah, that a sim is labelled "btb" doesn't mean that the people there are anymore intelligent that the average SL resident. It's how they RP who determines how good they are.
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Manon Seid
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Re: Comprimising your Character in SL Gor

Postby Manon Seid » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:27 am

:yeahthat: to what Victor said.

I played panther for so many years - now no more, i am done compromising. Its stupid to play a role thats supposed to hide or run from anyone she encounters. And not being allowed in more than half the sims that sport the btb label is not making things easier. Hence having to just play around the weird interpretations of Gor there is to be had in the sims thats left to play in.

I easily do that by the way - just sorta glace over the strange things, and try keep true to my own character, i am not a snob...well perhaps a closet snob ... in the long loong run it does irk me to the extend my character stopped logging in and i went off Gor building instead. That character is pretty much left sleeping now - like Horizons Bear i have no clue how to bring her back to life.

So i can't answer the poll - it depends very much on what role you choose. Playing panther i would say you have to compromise constantly unlesss you go for solo rp. In other roles i am guessing it will be easier to keep strict to your character.
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Re: Comprimising your Character in SL Gor

Postby Violetta Daviau » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:46 am

Manon Seid wrote:I played panther for so many years - now no more, i am done compromising. Its stupid to play a role thats supposed to hide or run from anyone she encounters. And not being allowed in more than half the sims that sport the btb label is not making things easier. Hence having to just play around the weird interpretations of Gor there is to be had in the sims thats left to play in.

I easily do that by the way - just sorta glace over the strange things, and try keep true to my own character, i am not a snob...well perhaps a closet snob ... in the long loong run it does irk me to the extend my character stopped logging in and i went off Gor building instead. That character is pretty much left sleeping now - like Horizons Bear i have no clue how to bring her back to life.

So i can't answer the poll - it depends very much on what role you choose. Playing panther i would say you have to compromise constantly unlesss you go for solo rp. In other roles i am guessing it will be easier to keep strict to your character.


I do not understand that really.

Panther girls are barely more running from anything and hiding from anyone than most other people in a real Gor do too. It is an SL thing that you see slaves and FW travel so much, even most men would never travel as much as you see people in SL travel from sim to sim. It has a reason that Goreans use the same word for stranger as for enemy. It is also an SL thing that you see any john doe run around with sword and bow and have the same advantages of the next warrior or peasant with those weapons. I really would wonder if a feather operating scribe is even coldblooded enough to release an arrow against another human when it comes to it.

Panther girls are female outlaws, so basically they have a similar standing as male outlaws too, they have far more space to wander than most cities have even. What we see though in SL is that most female players are magically drawn to men, panther girls as well with the added problem that they do not have free men in their ranks like FW do.
There is nothing compromising if you play your panther band like citizens play their citizenship in a way: If panther girls would play more amongst themselfes, do their daily lifes and adventures - much like citizens do too leaving aside the city hopping aspect - you can have a pretty similar RP experience. Citizens can often relay on only their city group mates to play with, often do not even need visitors. A panther girl does neither have to go to the next city to "find roleplay" - their players just need to replace the farts from their skulls with a brain and imagination often enough (global SL player problem). If the imagination is limited to D/s sex and clicky clacky archery supported captures, then the player has an entirely different problem anyways, beyond that the possibly most meaningful moment in a Gorean woman's life, her enslavement, becomes totally devalued.

Aside... in the books they considered it possible that Verna would go to Ar (and stand her ground there!), in the books they claim that it is possible for panther girls to go to the oh so hostile and climaticly disabling (SL Torvie reasoning) Torvaldslands. Also in the books they do write that panther girls get hired by men even for their tasks, i.e. work with men on mutual or trade agreed goals that even can include battle, and on other occurances Verna sat in Rask's camp if I am not mistaken - withOUT a collar!

To stay authentic though, and to not go onto the nerfs of others, one has to find a good balance, means: Not traveling daily, not eneverate other roles' players with constant attention hogging, trouble stirring and pewpew. If a panther girl player keeps their avatar for a visible maiority of the playtime in her band's domain, doing things with her band, then people would not frown and restrain panther girls so much when they appear here and there now and then.
As long as people consider all those GE panthers that follow this ill route of attention/trouble/pewpew BTB enough to allow them in, burning their fingers constantly with the resulting often bad experience, the reaction will always be to restrain the role as much as possible. And as long as people follow onlinisms to such high extend, the role will suffer too.
It is a grossly misunderstood role really, from both sides, players of the role and others.

Again: City players often stay in their "camp" to play with each other, within their group. If panther girl players would do the same to the same extend, else include themselfes and add nicely and OOC equal righted to roleplay plots elsewhere, the role could be lived in full potential.
Yes, city players have it a bit more structured, with their castes and their thus lots of subroles, but that is only a tag, it is the skills. strengths and weaknesses in the end that is defined with a subrole - and that one can do without such a tag too.

ETA:

Another point is that about every player in SL Gor is in a way the special snowflake of the books, a hero in her own story. Panther girl players have the same right to be a Verna as a man can play a Tarl.... or similar
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Re: Comprimising your Character in SL Gor

Postby Glaucon » Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:53 pm

BROKEN UP POST WARNING

Some comments.

Violetta Daviau wrote:Panther girls are female outlaws, so basically they have a similar standing as male outlaws too,


Hardly. They are women. Whatever we make of Gor, Gor is supposed to be a male dominated society. A male outlaw might not be welcome in a city, but outside of it, he is probably much the same as any man, in terms of standing. A woman is not.

What we see though in SL is that most female players are magically drawn to men, panther girls as well with the added problem that they do not have free men in their ranks like FW do.


What we see in the books is panther girls that are naturally drawn to men. What we see in RL is no different.

There is nothing compromising if you play your panther band like citizens play their citizenship in a way: If panther girls would play more amongst themselfes, do their daily lifes and adventures - much like citizens do too leaving aside the city hopping aspect - you can have a pretty similar RP experience.


I am sure that internal RP is possible. But a panther outlaw band doesn't seem at all similar to a city, to me. They live in small groups, clearly fairly close-knit. That is hardly comparable to people living in a city. There are many things in a city that can be used as ingredients for RP. I am not sure there is enough by way of RP ingredients when RP-ing a small number of people camping out in the woods, though I don't doubt that creative players might still find interesting RP opportunities.

But more importantly, the role of panther is an essentially 'incomplete' role. Clearly, that is how Norman feels about them. In the books, we don't see them happily hiding in the woods, content with their life devoid of men, building at their own female-only culture. Instead, we see them in contact with men, prowling men, trading with men, getting captured by men, being betrayed by men. Playing the role of panther in isolation of a larger Gor is a bit like playing a thief that never comes into contact with non-thieves.

Citizens can often relay on only their city group mates to play with, often do not even need visitors. A panther girl does neither have to go to the next city to "find roleplay" - their players just need to replace the farts from their skulls with a brain and imagination often enough (global SL player problem). If the imagination is limited to D/s sex and clicky clacky archery supported captures, then the player has an entirely different problem anyways, beyond that the possibly most meaningful moment in a Gorean woman's life, her enslavement, becomes totally devalued.


I don't know. Maybe I have too many farts in my head, but... frankly, I think that if you were to stick 7 male outlaws in a forest, and told them to ... do whatever they felt like doing, you'd would NOT end up with a tale of 7 men bonding over the fire, weaving intricate tales of companionship among themselves, perfectly content to be left in isolation from the rest of the world. They'd probably start wreaking havoc soon enough. I can't imagine it would be any different for women. It doesn't really seem to be any different for the panther girls in the books. And it certainly doesn't seem to be any different for most RP-ers in SL. My guess is that most people avoid a role of a hermit, because it will get boring. And those that DO play the role of a hermit will still want RP with others. And why would you demand that people that play roles like outlaw, pirate, panther girl, warrior, etc. be content with exciting RP of crushing wallnuts sitting at a campfire? Why do you think they opted to play such roles in the first place? To stay put in their camp/village/barracks?

Aside... in the books they considered it possible that Verna would go to Ar (and stand her ground there!), in the books they claim that it is possible for panther girls to go to the oh so hostile and climaticly disabling (SL Torvie reasoning) Torvaldslands. Also in the books they do write that panther girls get hired by men even for their tasks, i.e. work with men on mutual or trade agreed goals that even can include battle, and on other occurances Verna sat in Rask's camp if I am not mistaken - withOUT a collar!


Agreed.

To stay authentic though, and to not go onto the nerfs of others, one has to find a good balance, means: Not traveling daily, not eneverate other roles' players with constant attention hogging, trouble stirring and pewpew. If a panther girl player keeps their avatar for a visible maiority of the playtime in her band's domain, doing things with her band, then people would not frown and restrain panther girls so much when they appear here and there now and then.


Agreed, though I think that people will resent them anyway. Largely because SL Gor seems to be filled with people suffering from accute attention-envy, these days. And besides... it should not be about them showing restraint and then 'deserving' some attention after showing enough (as if that would ever work). It is or should be about people WANTING to RP with them. And if they don't, the whole thing is pretty pointless. Which, if I am to believe Manon and others beside her, it seems to have become.

As long as people consider all those GE panthers that follow this ill route of attention/trouble/pewpew BTB enough to allow them in, burning their fingers constantly with the resulting often bad experience, the reaction will always be to restrain the role as much as possible. And as long as people follow onlinisms to such high extend, the role will suffer too.
It is a grossly misunderstood role really, from both sides, players of the role and others.


What do you expect? For sims with cities to only RP with the 'right' panther RP-ers? For those 'GE' panther girls to show restraint? For people from cities to distinguish between the 'good panther girls' and the 'bad' ones? That won't happen. And while your panther girl group may be waiting patiently, restraining yourself from going to BtB city X, hoping they will be happy to RP with you when you finally do, another group of crazy GE panthers will have gone there, pissed everyone off, and when you show up, after all your patient self-restraint... they will sigh and not want to RP with more of those crazy panther players. It is the way those things work.

Again: City players often stay in their "camp" to play with each other, within their group. If panther girl players would do the same to the same extend, else include themselfes and add nicely and OOC equal righted to roleplay plots elsewhere, the role could be lived in full potential.


The full potential of the role you describe is certainly not anything that ever made it into the books. As I see it, a role like panther girl only reaches it's full potential when it interacts with other roles. Same with outlaws, assassins, thieves, pirates, and all such roles. Roles like that need a Ying to have their Yang.

Another point is that about every player in SL Gor is in a way the special snowflake of the books, a hero in her own story. Panther girl players have the same right to be a Verna as a man can play a Tarl.... or similar


Hmmm... who said that Verna was like Tarl? I didn't see her slay Larls and sleen singlehandedly, didn't see her topple cities, Tatrixes, save the planet a few times, save an alien race, always win every fight and so forth. She is a fearsome character, I suppose. In the same way as quite a few other characters in the books are. Some people really overdo it in their disgust of 'special snowflake characters'. Which probably ties in with the attention-envy issues Gor seems to be suffering from, at the moment.
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Re: Comprimising your Character in SL Gor

Postby Victor. » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:35 pm

Glaucon wrote:BROKEN UP POST WARNING


YOU DON'T GET TO WIELD THE RED-PEN, MISTER! WHAT IS THIS SHIT? ANARCHY?!

*totally tattles on Glau*
Eifersucht ist eine Leidenschaft, die mit Eifer sucht, was Leiden schafft. // Jealousy is a passion, seeking zealously what causes suffering. Franz Grillparzer
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Re: Comprimising your Character in SL Gor

Postby Violetta Daviau » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:41 am

Glaucon wrote:BROKEN UP POST WARNING

Some comments.

Violetta Daviau wrote:Panther girls are female outlaws, so basically they have a similar standing as male outlaws too,


Hardly. They are women. Whatever we make of Gor, Gor is supposed to be a male dominated society. A male outlaw might not be welcome in a city, but outside of it, he is probably much the same as any man, in terms of standing. A woman is not.


In the wilderness, legally, outlaw is outlaw. Given though, the standing is not the same - a woman ends up usually enslaved, not killed like a man.

Glaucon wrote:
What we see though in SL is that most female players are magically drawn to men, panther girls as well with the added problem that they do not have free men in their ranks like FW do.


What we see in the books is panther girls that are naturally drawn to men. What we see in RL is no different.


You pretty much miss the point of my post, Glaucon, in SL people reduce their play so much often that they need either daily sex, daily pewpew, go "afk" if there is no man close, etc.
Aside: "What we see in RL"... is that women can very well spend TONS of time together, even without men, and also without violence or sex.

Glaucon wrote:
There is nothing compromising if you play your panther band like citizens play their citizenship in a way: If panther girls would play more amongst themselfes, do their daily lifes and adventures - much like citizens do too leaving aside the city hopping aspect - you can have a pretty similar RP experience.


I am sure that internal RP is possible. But a panther outlaw band doesn't seem at all similar to a city, to me. They live in small groups, clearly fairly close-knit. That is hardly comparable to people living in a city. There are many things in a city that can be used as ingredients for RP. I am not sure there is enough by way of RP ingredients when RP-ing a small number of people camping out in the woods, though I don't doubt that creative players might still find interesting RP opportunities.

But more importantly, the role of panther is an essentially 'incomplete' role. Clearly, that is how Norman feels about them. In the books, we don't see them happily hiding in the woods, content with their life devoid of men, building at their own female-only culture. Instead, we see them in contact with men, prowling men, trading with men, getting captured by men, being betrayed by men. Playing the role of panther in isolation of a larger Gor is a bit like playing a thief that never comes into contact with non-thieves.


I do not say a panther girl band IS similar to a city, I say it can be PLAYED similar to a city. Again you miss the point of the post, hard, sorry!
People in cities play together much much more than many most panther girl bands who rather go out to meet others, sneak alone into cities, go raid to play with captives (or be captives), etc.
As for your ingredients for RP... no, there are not more. You have a territorical setting, you have certain RP items. In a city you usually have castes and some houses most of which you basically never enter. In a forest you can set up a lot of RP spots too if you need prim representation. You do not need castes to play skills/tasks and main responsibilities. Do I need to be caste of tanners to make hide? Surely not.
And the rest is imagination, fantasy that gets created in the head. The problem is just that most players actually come from more or less big civilized settlements and cannot imagine that also e.g. real wild tribes can fill their day with tasks and adventures.

What we read about panther girls in the books is that they occur in the - male - protagonist's stories as cap meat, yes, but those incidents are only one occurance in their lifes. It is still not a daily occurance and what do you think they do between those?

Glaucon wrote:
Citizens can often relay on only their city group mates to play with, often do not even need visitors. A panther girl does neither have to go to the next city to "find roleplay" - their players just need to replace the farts from their skulls with a brain and imagination often enough (global SL player problem). If the imagination is limited to D/s sex and clicky clacky archery supported captures, then the player has an entirely different problem anyways, beyond that the possibly most meaningful moment in a Gorean woman's life, her enslavement, becomes totally devalued.


I don't know. Maybe I have too many farts in my head, but... frankly, I think that if you were to stick 7 male outlaws in a forest, and told them to ... do whatever they felt like doing, you'd would NOT end up with a tale of 7 men bonding over the fire, weaving intricate tales of companionship among themselves, perfectly content to be left in isolation from the rest of the world. They'd probably start wreaking havoc soon enough. I can't imagine it would be any different for women. It doesn't really seem to be any different for the panther girls in the books. And it certainly doesn't seem to be any different for most RP-ers in SL. My guess is that most people avoid a role of a hermit, because it will get boring. And those that DO play the role of a hermit will still want RP with others. And why would you demand that people that play roles like outlaw, pirate, panther girl, warrior, etc. be content with exciting RP of crushing wallnuts sitting at a campfire? Why do you think they opted to play such roles in the first place? To stay put in their camp/village/barracks?


Group is group, fact is that in cities people play much more together relatively than most panther girls I ever met throughout my time in SL. And also citizens imagine things to be there, most simple example: The drinking vessels and barrels in tavern.
As I said, one can set up a forest with RP supporting spots too, and use one's imagination likewise if one has imagination. The point is about playing with one's group mates in the surroundings one has chosen - and the opportunities in a way differ between a city and a forest while the possibility to play together stays.

Glaucon wrote:
To stay authentic though, and to not go onto the nerfs of others, one has to find a good balance, means: Not traveling daily, not eneverate other roles' players with constant attention hogging, trouble stirring and pewpew. If a panther girl player keeps their avatar for a visible maiority of the playtime in her band's domain, doing things with her band, then people would not frown and restrain panther girls so much when they appear here and there now and then.


Agreed, though I think that people will resent them anyway. Largely because SL Gor seems to be filled with people suffering from accute attention-envy, these days. And besides... it should not be about them showing restraint and then 'deserving' some attention after showing enough (as if that would ever work). It is or should be about people WANTING to RP with them. And if they don't, the whole thing is pretty pointless. Which, if I am to believe Manon and others beside her, it seems to have become.


Surely, and still the point stays. The overload of pewpew and what else I counted is that panther girls are being so hard frowned upon. People do not feel to meet a panther seeing how they are displayed in SL, people are enervated that all you get is either violence or attention whoring or else meaningless small bits. The RL factor of fearing to be "femdom'ed" surely plays a never admitted role for many too yes.
And surely, panther girl "societies" and city "societies" are different, often clash. But one can well also approach each other other than just walking up and saying "Tal"...

Glaucon wrote:
As long as people consider all those GE panthers that follow this ill route of attention/trouble/pewpew BTB enough to allow them in, burning their fingers constantly with the resulting often bad experience, the reaction will always be to restrain the role as much as possible. And as long as people follow onlinisms to such high extend, the role will suffer too.
It is a grossly misunderstood role really, from both sides, players of the role and others.


What do you expect? For sims with cities to only RP with the 'right' panther RP-ers? For those 'GE' panther girls to show restraint? For people from cities to distinguish between the 'good panther girls' and the 'bad' ones? That won't happen. And while your panther girl group may be waiting patiently, restraining yourself from going to BtB city X, hoping they will be happy to RP with you when you finally do, another group of crazy GE panthers will have gone there, pissed everyone off, and when you show up, after all your patient self-restraint... they will sigh and not want to RP with more of those crazy panther players. It is the way those things work.


People in BTB say "No GE" often enough. GE is not just femlaws though, armed FW. It is a state of mind, a way of playing itself. A GE panther girl band is no different to a GE outlaw band - in behavior, way of playing! - often enough.
People rule how Femlaws have to appear, what GE outlaws male or female may and may not, but about panther girls it is only "no raiding". A bit short sighted...

Glaucon wrote:
Again: City players often stay in their "camp" to play with each other, within their group. If panther girl players would do the same to the same extend, else include themselfes and add nicely and OOC equal righted to roleplay plots elsewhere, the role could be lived in full potential.


The full potential of the role you describe is certainly not anything that ever made it into the books. As I see it, a role like panther girl only reaches it's full potential when it interacts with other roles. Same with outlaws, assassins, thieves, pirates, and all such roles. Roles like that need a Ying to have their Yang.


A strange way of seeing it really. Pretty much a far too harsh reduction to the books, one step more and you would likely say "you may only play precisely what is displayed in the books, word by word".
Again though, regarding the roles... In a city you have FM, FW and slaves, the rest are subroles (caste of...). In a panther girl band you have "FW" and slaves, the rest can as well be subroles (skilled tanner, best scout, etc.). It is not the different roles you see that drives the plays, it does not many to people if they include in their stories a Red caste FW or a Blue caste FW, they include a FW or even just the next that happens to be there and they like, and drive their stories. What IS a big difference though is if you can include men or not.
Yes, Gor is male dominated, but that does still not meen that you have to run off daily to interact with them if you - by own choice - took a role that is said to be remote from men.

Glaucon wrote:
Another point is that about every player in SL Gor is in a way the special snowflake of the books, a hero in her own story. Panther girl players have the same right to be a Verna as a man can play a Tarl.... or similar


Hmmm... who said that Verna was like Tarl? I didn't see her slay Larls and sleen singlehandedly, didn't see her topple cities, Tatrixes, save the planet a few times, save an alien race, always win every fight and so forth. She is a fearsome character, I suppose. In the same way as quite a few other characters in the books are. Some people really overdo it in their disgust of 'special snowflake characters'. Which probably ties in with the attention-envy issues Gor seems to be suffering from, at the moment.


And yet she was a protagonist, an epitome of a role, a special character.
But yes, I myself do not need supersnowflakes daily either, be it Tarl or Verna, but that is my personal choice.

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