Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

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TreatRothschild
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby TreatRothschild » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:20 pm

Mat Vhargon wrote:
TreatRothschild wrote:
"Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course," said Scrooge. "I'm very glad to hear it."

Yea seen that quote several times but it does not change anything. I do not care if someone is on a useful course or not or anything like that If they want to lay around and jerk off all day... if that is what floats their boat than more power to them or to me for that matter provided I am not setting around jerking my junk at the taxpayers dime I don't care what anyone else is doing or not doing.

I am subtly comparing your attitude to that of Ebeneezer Scrooge. Who thought the worst of all and would help none. Every time this argument comes up, I have a reason to quote that marvelous piece of prose and every time, someone misses the point entirely.

You should read A Christmas Carol and The Chimes. While they are Christmas stories, they are about caring for more than what is in front of you. They speak of the obligation to take care of those less fortunate than you.
Let me give you some advice bastard. Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby Mat » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:23 pm

TreatRothschild wrote:They speak of the obligation to take care of those less fortunate than you.

No such obligation exists. I may take care of someone less fortunate than myself but I do so as a choice not out of any obligation unless that obligation is put on myself... and it is in certain specific circumstances.
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him
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TreatRothschild
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby TreatRothschild » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:25 pm

Rather than go on the attack on this, I'm going to just shrug and walk away.
Let me give you some advice bastard. Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby Mat » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:24 pm

Draco wrote:Oh please. You can glorify whichever value you want, if you blindly keep fighting for any value without restraint it becomes fanaticism and not something to be praised wether you are fighting tooth and nail for justice, freedom, human rights or whatever other cause.

We all have our priorities I suppose for me freedom is the number one priority and it is the foundation to all other values and without it all others fall apart over time. I am supportive of freedom in all forms provided that exercise of that freedom does not deprive others from their equally justified exercise of freedom. It would be wrong for me to kill someone but it is not wrong for me to watch someone who is hurt and not offer them aid thus allowing them to die when I could have done something to stop it. I do not live in a state that requires me to stop and render aid to someone provided I am not on duty.
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby TreatRothschild » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:27 pm

Mat Vhargon wrote:We all have our priorities I suppose for me freedom is the number one priority and it is the foundation to all other values and without it all others fall apart over time. I am supportive of freedom in all forms provided that exercise of that freedom does not deprive others from their equally justified exercise of freedom. It would be wrong for me to kill someone but it is not wrong for me to watch someone who is hurt and not offer them aid thus allowing them to die when I could have done something to stop it. I do not live in a state that requires me to stop and render aid to someone provided I am not on duty.

Wow. Just...wow.
Let me give you some advice bastard. Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby Vylixan » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:39 pm

Mat Vhargon wrote:It would be wrong for me to kill someone but it is not wrong for me to watch someone who is hurt and not offer them aid thus allowing them to die when I could have done something to stop it.


I hope you do not practice what you preach....
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby Mat » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:48 pm

Vylixan wrote:
Mat Vhargon wrote:It would be wrong for me to kill someone but it is not wrong for me to watch someone who is hurt and not offer them aid thus allowing them to die when I could have done something to stop it.


I hope you do not practice what you preach....

I actually don't but that is only because I choose to help others when I can if they want help but the example is pretty clear cut for me the insurance debate is much less so.

I would help someone for a limited time in the insurance situation but my help is finite and not forever. I have no problem helping get someone back onto their feet but I will not row the boat for them as well forever.
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby Ceri the Urt » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:35 pm

Whether affordable health insurance is offered, or not...there will always be people who will try and cheat the system to not have to pay a cent.

I would rather see the plans made affordable and offered to everyone, then have it remain the same...where the people who "are" trying to do right thing suffer because of the amount they have to pay out now is so insanely high.

When I turned 18 my parents insurance approved me for a treatment. I got it done, and then they dropped me and said I would need to pay out of pocket, Five thousand dollars. It ruined my credit. I was 18 living with my fiance going into dept because I was attempting to stay in school and pay back the five grand which may not seem like a lot but to me...right out of high school...it was a friggin fortune. I ended up dropping out to get a job.

The ironic part was...I had gone on charity care, and was not paying a dime for anything medical.

Healthcare in the US is stupid. It needs to be changed. It needs to offer people more fair options. I don't see this as nannying, or someone trying to run our lives, I see it as a step in the right direction to get ourselves on a better track. It may not be perfect, but right now, anything is better then what we have.

As for US and freedoms? Don't get me started. I had parents FREAK out on my today because a bunch or Russian athletes were changing in the lobby of my workplace. God forbid anyone should see their panties.

I have gay friends who can't get married.

I have to pay to send my daughter to an all day Kindergarten not because I need a daycare because I work, but because she LOVES school and wants to go, but they don't offer a full day...unlike one town over, which does. Not only that but we had to pay a fortune for her to go to a preschool and now in the normal kindergarten she is being set back an entire year in learning because normal kindergarten barely teaches them crap and it is 20+ kids to 1 teacher.

I have to pay to live in the community I live because they want to throw a big pig roast in summer that we never go to, and to swim in the lake we never go in, or play on the playground that the teenagers have sex in, which we of course never use. Yet they still demand payment. It doesn't matter that they are racists who make new bylaws every time we change something on our property...like we dug a whole to remove something and a week later there is a new law that says no holes can be dug unless the committee approves.

There is a lot in the US that is not "free" as it is in other countries. Sure we can say whatever we want...whenever we want...but ya know, sometimes that can be more of a detriment then a good thing. Just ask those parents of sons and daughters who died in Iraq who now have to deal with protesters at their childrens funerals.

We are the land of the free and the home of the brave...but sometimes, it sure doesn't feel like such a great thing or like it is really free...Maybe it should be "The land of the free, (unless your gay, black, Asian, etc..and want to get married, adopt babies, send your kids to better schools) and the home of the brave (unless we disagree with why you are being brave...like, fighting in a war we don't approve of)...
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby Mat » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:43 pm

Ceri the Urt wrote:We are the land of the free and the home of the brave...but sometimes, it sure doesn't feel like such a great thing or like it is really free...Maybe it should be "The land of the free, (unless your gay, black, Asian, etc..and want to get married, adopt babies, send your kids to better schools) and the home of the brave (unless we disagree with why you are being brave...like, fighting in a war we don't approve of)...

Yes we do need to work on many of those things such freedom to marry whomever you choose.
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:07 pm

Mat Vhargon wrote:
Draco wrote:Oh please. You can glorify whichever value you want, if you blindly keep fighting for any value without restraint it becomes fanaticism and not something to be praised wether you are fighting tooth and nail for justice, freedom, human rights or whatever other cause.

It would be wrong for me to kill someone but it is not wrong for me to watch someone who is hurt and not offer them aid thus allowing them to die when I could have done something to stop it. I do not live in a state that requires me to stop and render aid to someone provided I am not on duty.


I hadn't even realized yet that US was so backwards as to not have the "Duty to rescue" concept listed among it's civil law. :facepalm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue

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