Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:19 pm

Healthcare and education should be free.

But for the most part I'm very liberal minded. (Up to a certain point considering capitalism and corporatism are on a highway straight to hell right now. A social time bomb waiting to explode).

I'm all for Obamacare. It's not perfect yet, but it's a step in the right direction and hopefully from there on they can continue to improve and expand so everyone can get covered. It's true that some of the poorest will not be able to afford it, but with the money it brings in it should open up the option to also supply the poorer with new options.

Besides that I'm personally against car and home insurrances. It's a car, it might get damaged, tough luck if you happen to drive into someone who can't afford the repairs right away. Cars are used to drive from point A to point B... Who gives a fuck if it looks damaged. And banks really do NOT need protection (all the protection thrown to banks just ends up in the endlessly deep pockets of their boards of directors. There's more money on bank-accounts than ever before, yet somehow the banks are in more trouble than ever before... :roll: )

Obama is one of the best things that ever happened to the US, it's almost disgusting how he's treated by the american people and media. He's the president your country doesn't deserve. You're like 50 years behind to Europe when it comes to social justice.
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby Vylixan » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:21 pm

Rob wrote:Over 50 million uninsured, i'd say it cant get worse...

I guess if they all die because of lack of healthcare non will care. So it can get worse.
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby Mat » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:39 pm

Kaitlin wrote:
Vylixan wrote:
Rob wrote:Over 50 million uninsured, i'd say it cant get worse...

I guess if they all die because of lack of healthcare non will care. So it can get worse.


Actually it improves...fewer people to insure. Seems exactly the lack of care and concern currently shown by the Republican governors who have decided to refuse to accept much needed funding to cover services for the uninsured.

If they accept that money are they not adding to the national debt? or are there programs that are being cut to pay for these funds or taxes that have been increased? It seems like poor stewards of my money to just take it without knowing what the effect of those funds will be to other programs or taxes. And no I am not one who believes that 100% of the people should have health insurance we were promised the pursuit of happiness not the ability to actually achieve it.
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby Mynerva » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:41 pm

I believe Obamacare is incredibly difficult and convoluted and is doomed to fail.

Of course there needs to be reform - but I do not think Obamacare will do the trick. As long as there is no valid public option - one that is financed by the member who pay in - I do not see how Obamacare can really make a great difference.

Telling privat business how they have to run their businesses - that is simply not the answer. It is not the answer here in Europe - and will not be the answer in the US.

What do people here consider "socialized health care?" I would not want a one payer system - for example.
Freiheit ist immer Freiheit der Andersdenkenden.
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby Mynerva » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:43 pm

Draco wrote:Healthcare and education should be free.



Nothing is for free. Someone has to pay for it - one way or another.
Freiheit ist immer Freiheit der Andersdenkenden.
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby Festus » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:56 pm

I just don't get all the outrage, other than the fact that Obamacare actually helps people.

Where is all this outrage when Congress is spending trillions of our dollars a year on pork projects that are absolutely unnecessary, or the billions spent on subsidizing corporations who are making billions in profits at the same time? I just don't get it.

Where is the outrage when our personal freedoms are taken away by the Patriot Act and the treatment of Occupy protesters?


I think the Republican propaganda machine is apparently doing something right.
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:07 pm

Mynerva wrote:
Draco wrote:Healthcare and education should be free.



Nothing is for free. Someone has to pay for it - one way or another.


Ofcourse. Then again you don't see people saying that they shouldn't have to pay for the maintenance of the roads, for the wages of the cops and firemen, for the administration of keeping everything running according legislation ranging from education to cultural organisations etc.

When everyone pays some money and in the end it means everyone can go get healthcare or education without having to jump through hoops or dig deep into their bank accounts, you'll at least give people the essential feeling of freedom in those areas and assure that everyone can get treatment for their illnesses.

Obama-care isn't perfect. And I believe that telling private businesses how they should run their businesses is exactly what should happen when they offer services that are closely related to the well-being of humans. There's no point in blindly supporting the free market, it has huge flaws and if people haven't noticed yet how hugely flawed capitalism is nowadays then well... wake up, I guess. If you wouldn't have regulations on companies you'd have to live with cartels that would exploit their common monopolies. Everyone needs to follow laws, also businesses.
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby Courrier » Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:08 pm

Mynerva wrote:
Draco wrote:Healthcare and education should be free.



Nothing is for free. Someone has to pay for it - one way or another.


You are sounding so liberal, my dear (liberal as in the global concept, not the American understanding which is more left-winged).

To me, the only true obligations of the state should be defense, roads and a legal system, and then move out of the way. In theory, that is. If people would be responsible enough to create their own wealth, charitable enough to give freely to the less fortunate, and the less fortunate not feeling it is their 'right' to receive from others (ie. Overused welfare in the US).

Edited to remove a lot of off topic stuff I wrote. : P
Last edited by Courrier on Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby Mat » Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:13 pm

Draco wrote:
Mynerva wrote:
Draco wrote:Healthcare and education should be free.



Nothing is for free. Someone has to pay for it - one way or another.


Ofcourse. Then again you don't see people saying that they shouldn't have to pay for the maintenance of the roads, for the wages of the cops and firemen, for the administration of keeping everything running according legislation ranging from education to cultural organisations etc.


I will be the first to stand up and say that those things should not be paid by someone who does not use them. Roads should only be paid for out of either usage fees or gas fees that way everyone pays for the roads based on how much they use them... you buy some corn and help pay for the road that transported it this would help make local produce / goods cheaper as they should be in addition to proportionally paying for roads by usage. Police and fire same thing should be an option as has been in some areas I have seen news stories of people who did not pay for their fire protection having the firemen watch their house burn and only be there to protect adjacent properties who have actually paid.
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him
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Re: Obamacare, What are your thoughts?

Postby TreatRothschild » Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:15 pm

Mat Vhargon wrote:If they accept that money are they not adding to the national debt? or are there programs that are being cut to pay for these funds or taxes that have been increased? It seems like poor stewards of my money to just take it without knowing what the effect of those funds will be to other programs or taxes. And no I am not one who believes that 100% of the people should have health insurance we were promised the pursuit of happiness not the ability to actually achieve it.
You were not promised happiness.

Robert Heinlein - Starship Troopers wrote:"Ah yes, [life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness]... Life? What 'right' to life has a man who is drowning in the Pacific? The ocean will not hearken to his cries. What 'right' to life has a man who must die to save his children? If he chooses to save his own life, does he do so as a matter of 'right'? If two men are starving and cannibalism is the only alternative to death, which man's right is 'unalienable'? And is it 'right'? As to liberty, the heroes who signed the great document pledged themselves to buy liberty with their lives. Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called natural human rights that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost. The third 'right'?—the 'pursuit of happiness'? It is indeed unalienable but it is not a right; it is simply a universal condition which tyrants cannot take away nor patriots restore. Cast me into a dungeon, burn me at the stake, crown me king of kings, I can 'pursue happiness' as long as my brain lives—but neither gods nor saints, wise men nor subtle drugs, can ensure that I will catch it."


Pay attention to that last sentence.
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