Slave Training

Discussions related to Kajira, Kajirus, Bonds and Thralls.
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Tamar Luminos
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Tamar Luminos » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:04 am

I personally think that helping the people on the sim get a good feel for and understanding of the genre they're playing in is actually the responsibility of the sim staff and "faction leaders"- which I can see a slaver being one of, just as I can see caste leaders being, the owner of a FW's tea house, the owner of a tavern, the owner of a bath house...the point to me, is to see these roles which have people under them, and taking on a bit of responsibility in helping those people under you to both enjoy their own r/p experience on the sim and learn how to contribute positively to the r/p of others on the sim.

I'm not a fan of the whole "not my problem, I'm not here to babysit anyone else's r/p" approach, myself and I realize that this may not be a popular opinion on these boards, but I see these roles listed above as having some responsibility to them, not to micromanage (ohgodno, I've seen that and it's worse than the 'hand's off' approach) but to provide opportunities for knowledge to be disseminated- through classes, through r/p events, through posts on message boards, maybe even the occasional NC.

And maybe the responsibility is exactly why it's so hard to find people to take on those roles. But to my thinking, if you're in one of those roles, wouldn't you want to be sure the people "under" you IC both know what they're doing and are having a good time doing it?
"...to take truth for granted is not to know it. Truth not won is not possessed. We are not entitled to truths for which we have not fought." --- (Marauders of Gor, p.7)
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Resolver Bouchard
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Resolver Bouchard » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:28 am

Tamar Luminos wrote:I personally think that helping the people on the sim get a good feel for and understanding of the genre they're playing in is actually the responsibility of the sim staff and "faction leaders"- which I can see a slaver being one of, just as I can see caste leaders being, the owner of a FW's tea house, the owner of a tavern, the owner of a bath house...the point to me, is to see these roles which have people under them, and taking on a bit of responsibility in helping those people under you to both enjoy their own r/p experience on the sim and learn how to contribute positively to the r/p of others on the sim.

I'm not a fan of the whole "not my problem, I'm not here to babysit anyone else's r/p" approach, myself and I realize that this may not be a popular opinion on these boards, but I see these roles listed above as having some responsibility to them, not to micromanage (ohgodno, I've seen that and it's worse than the 'hand's off' approach) but to provide opportunities for knowledge to be disseminated- through classes, through r/p events, through posts on message boards, maybe even the occasional NC.

And maybe the responsibility is exactly why it's so hard to find people to take on those roles. But to my thinking, if you're in one of those roles, wouldn't you want to be sure the people "under" you IC both know what they're doing and are having a good time doing it?


It's not just the genre, its how the genre has been adapted for the mechanics of the simulation environment and which particular aspects you are focusing on.

There is no way the books can teach you that but spending an hour a week to point newcomers what they should be focusing on when they read the books will save a load of problems in the future.

I think a lot of the back-slapping "great" roleplayers of SL Gor like setting up newcomers to fail by not providing basic guidance.
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Gorm
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Gorm » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:40 am

I see very littel to none training of new slaves and i see very few even being interested in being trained and adapt to what a slave of Gor is.

For me, i hvae come to a point when i usually just tell a slave to continue on her chores, whith absolutely no interest in who she is or what she wants as she approaches me - i might be an ass for that - but i am sick and tired of women who are translated into stupid bimbooes who loose half of their braincells, because they enter Gor, I am tired og the brats who states all over their profile and tags 'I am a bitch, deal with it!' - the mischevious slaves who accidently and constantly comits mistakes, those who are numb, blind, sick or in another way is so very individual and special, that it has nothing to do with Gor.

I wish those dealing with slaves, those inviting them to a sim, or to their own chain, would learn how to deal with them so they were cabable or giving them a proper training and kill those who are not able to learn and to adapt or are too disabled...

I am sick and tired of the endless rude thought emotes I get, when I play my gorean character - emotes that so embarrashingly shows how little these slave characters understand of Gor, that i have come to a point of not wanting to deal with them if i can avoid it.
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Elle Couerblanc
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Elle Couerblanc » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:45 am

I feel like the trend in the last year in SL Gor regarding IC and OOC separation has come to a point of ridiculousness. I am not saying it is okay to treat slaves like slaves OOC but when it comes to gaining better knowledge and understanding you need some OOC discussion. We do this in school regarding literature, books, music, theatre etc. why not in SL Gor anymore? For example, when I read Shakespeare or Chaucer in my English Lit classes, part of the knowledge and understanding I gained regarding the author's work came from class discussions. What is so wrong with doing this in SL Gor? I have read, I don't know like 22 or so books now and I still need to talk over some of the points with others to get a good idea for my RP.
"Old stories are like old friends. You have to visit them from time to time." Bran - A Storm of Swords, pg 315

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Elle Couerblanc
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Elle Couerblanc » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:35 pm

Kaitlin wrote:
Elle Couerblanc wrote:I feel like the trend in the last year in SL Gor regarding IC and OOC separation has come to a point of ridiculousness. I am not saying it is okay to treat slaves like slaves OOC but when it comes to gaining better knowledge and understanding you need some OOC discussion. We do this in school regarding literature, books, music, theatre etc. why not in SL Gor anymore? For example, when I read Shakespeare or Chaucer in my English Lit classes, part of the knowledge and understanding I gained regarding the author's work came from class discussions. What is so wrong with doing this in SL Gor? I have read, I don't know like 22 or so books now and I still need to talk over some of the points with others to get a good idea for my RP.


But you take it upon yourself to approach others rather than simply saying to the people you RP with in a given role that they are required to teach you. That seems to be the only issue being discussed here. Not the validity of OOC training. Its like saying Cor would be responsible for everyone in House Leblanc knowing how to RP and understanding the genre. He also would be responsible for giving OOC training because he chose his role. It makes no sense.


I am not meaning Cor or those who take on leadership roles. Perhaps I wasn't clear. I am referring to those players who enjoy combining IC and OOC training or should I say IC training and OOC discussion. I don't really get the flack they sometimes receive for offering "training" in this manner.
"Old stories are like old friends. You have to visit them from time to time." Bran - A Storm of Swords, pg 315

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Conall
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Conall » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:20 pm

Kaitlin wrote:
Gorm wrote:You have to "want" to improve or learn.


Thats the point.

If you want to be acknowledged as a fellow roleplayer, you have to strive to give your best in your choosen role and the wish to learn. Thats a thing which applies for every roleplayer but you cant teach the unwilling .. not ic and not ooc and as Gorm, i am annoyed also very often and i am asking myself, why is it that it is tolerated that some simply do not wish to have to learn but are allowed to be around to feed their kinks?

I am accused i would hate slaves in general :confuzed: , which isn't true as i only play my role but i am simply fed up by all the ones which wanna use me to fullfill their fantasy :mrgreen:

Sometimes i think that a gorean welcome center should be a big slave pen for slaves and a prison for the free and everyone should be forced to stay inside till they got it.
"You have your Odin and i have mine"
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Bara Mayako
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Bara Mayako » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:07 pm

Kaitlin wrote:I would also ask why would it be the responsibility of the Slaver to teach a player how to RP other than IC scenes? I see no problem with providing RP etiquette information but I believe it is a bit silly to expect another person to teach you how to RP and also OOC common sense. Usually that is done through observation and OOC experience and research.


Kait, this is something you and I agree upon.

Another point that I am finding myself more and more in agreement with you on is the value of the books. In spite of how poorly written I think they are, I do find that they do provide valuable insights. It is perhaps possible, without reading the books, if one is a very perceptive person, and is lucky enough to be exposed to characters who play the role well, or is pointed to one of the better websites or is given (*gasp, yes*) good notecard information, to adequately play in Gor, and they may get better in time; if you put enough effort into anything, then it is no surprise that you will (usually) improve. But even then, the books would still be a valuable resource that can help improve your understanding of the role. The first time I tried to read Hunters of Gor, after about an hour I had to put it down, I found the repetition and the stilted language extremely annoying and since English is not my native language, the boredom and annoyance prevented me from going on. The second time, I took a different approach and quickly read through the book; I had a feeling for when it would get annoying and just scanned over those parts and got through the entire work in 3 hours. That gave me a basis, and sometimes I would go back and re-read some parts, so all-in-all I think I've spent a total of 5-6 hours on that one book (I've since read a few more, all in the same way, and I am still not impressed with his writing, so I fully understand anyone who does not want to read them). However, reading the books is definitely no guarantee that people will look past many of the cardboard cutout descriptions and try to go any deeper than a caricature character, either. Still, it can't hurt to invest 3 hours in ploughing through one of the books (most of which are available for free if you are one of the many people who has no qualms about downloading works without paying for them). It may not make you an expert on Gor, but for most people, it will help to improve your roleplay in Gor.

However, I also agree that there is alot about playing the role in SL Gor that the books won't teach you, and you need to know, somehow.

One point where my opinion and yours may differ is this:

[10:44] BryanR Rickena: @

[10:44] Mia Harcourt smiles please tell us Master

[10:45] BryanR Rickena: Tarsk is porcine type animal, and there is bacon that is fried

[10:46] Mia Harcourt: sounds delicious Master and absolutely correct.


[10:52] Freja Emerald: @

[10:52] Mia Harcourt: thank you freda please go ahead

[10:52] Freja Emerald: no sure, but would guess sa-tarna bread as difference to black bread

[10:53] Mia Harcourt: yes that is right frida.


Notice that she refers to BryanR as "Master" (capital "M"), but to Freja as "freda" (sic), with a small "F"), in what is clearly an OOC section of the training. Particularly because the IC/OOC separation in Gor can be such an issue, I think it is important that in an OOC training, she demonstrate by example the difference; if she switched from calling a player by his name to calling him "Master" in the part of the training where the slaves are serving the master, it would help to make that boundary clear. If players later choose individually with one another to move that boundary, it is then their informed choice, and not influenced by a teacher who has muddied that for them.

But this is the only part that I have a problem with. Otherwise, consider us in agreement (for a change).
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Tamar Luminos
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Tamar Luminos » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:26 pm

Anyone have any more ideas about this:


What does seem to be missing in the list above is the involvement of various players beyond the Slaver & trainer in the development of a slave ready for the block. A few examples are the Scribe who works with them on language or the Physician who might test their responsiveness to the whip. This one dimensional way of looking at a slave house probably has quite a bit to do with its lack of appeal and the associated burn out of the few players that take on this role.



I really like this idea, and it got me thinking...and yes, I really do wish more people would do that. What if we made a list of suggestions along this line? Sometimes it helps to just get the ideas out there, give people an idea for something they can r/p. Because I really love the idea of using people actually -doing- things for their caste in the r/p and interacting with people in that fashion.


I'd like to see if anyone had any other ideas about slave training- suggestions for topics, what would be the most effective way to do it, what would be the most fun for people involved, etc.
"...to take truth for granted is not to know it. Truth not won is not possessed. We are not entitled to truths for which we have not fought." --- (Marauders of Gor, p.7)
http://clockworkkitteh.blogspot.com/
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Victualia
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Victualia » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:21 am

Conall wrote:
Kaitlin wrote:
Gorm wrote:You have to "want" to improve or learn.


Thats the point.


I am accused i would hate slaves in general :confuzed: , which isn't true as i only play my role but i am simply fed up by all the ones which wanna use me to fullfill their fantasy :mrgreen:

That is for me exactly the point but counting for the Free. I started my character to learn, I have not been a slave for years and thought I'll give it a try. Most of what I did from there on was training myself to make it easier for others. But I came to a point where my character was stucking, I could not go on, I needed help in training, but there was no one willing to give it and/or it was a problem of timezones. Perhaps as a slave I am there to fullfill fantasies, but sorry, they have to work to mold me into what they want. :D

Conall wrote: Sometimes i think that a gorean welcome center should be a big slave pen for slaves and a prison for the free and everyone should be forced to stay inside till they got it.


Like! :thumbup:
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Victualia
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Victualia » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:20 pm

Kaitlin wrote:Where did you find yourself stuck and what do you believe has to be done to mold you? Are you talking about with an owner?


I cannot train myself to feel like a slave, I am barbarian, I can train myself to serve, positions, Gorean language, but it stucked in feeling like a slave. Due to roleplay Vic was, as I stated before, in the "Rebellion of Compliance". She was obeying, but she was not feeling anything.

I do not talk about an Owner, I talk about any Free that was approaching me, expecting me to be like any other slave, without putting any effort in it. Very much like Conall I thought/think: I am not here to fullfill your fantasies, if you can't put anything into it.

It also had a lot of advantage later and I did not even want to change it, for different reasons, so the moment I met someone, who I felt was able to change that, I had to move on. But that is a complete different story :mrgreen: .

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