Interrupting the Free?

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Interrupting the Free?

Postby Sabina Takakura » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:29 pm

Is this a legitimate thing from the books?

Let's say a slave comes up on a group of people, and interjects into the scene. Obviously she's trying to interact, become involved in the story, to participate in what's going on in the environment.
But probably about 90% of the time, it's met with
"You interrupted the free! I'm going to kill you!"

And it just squishes the scene. It pushes us away into a corner with no RP.
So arm me, folks. Is there any actual book reference that says slaves aren't allowed to speak to free? If so, I think we've found the fatal flaw in Gor RP.
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Re: Interrupting the Free?

Postby Tamar Luminos » Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:24 pm

`It is common,' I said, `for a slave to request permission to speak.' 'Forgive me, Masters!' she wept. 'You are men! You are men! A slave begs forgiveness!'' Magicians of Gor --pg. 226

That's one just off the top of my head. However- allowances can certainly be made for roleplay purposes. Hell, think of all the ways SL Gorean RP neglects to reflect the following passages:

"How can a girl who is only a slave be of interest?" she asked.
"Your question is foolish" I said. "all men desire a slave or slaves, it is their nature. Thus, that a woman is a slave, even in itself, makes her extraordinarily interesting. Her slavery itself, apart from her intelligence or beauty, is found extremely provocative and exciting to a male, because of his nature." ~Page 274 - Beasts of Gor

"Gorean enemies, if skilled, often hold one another in high regard."
Page 70 - Marauders of Gor

"This harsh treatment, incidentally, when she is thought to deserve it, may even be inflicted on a free companion, in spite of the fact that she is free and usually much loved. According to the Gorean way of looking at things a taste of the slave ring is thought to be occasionally beneficial to all women, even the exalted free woman. Thus when she has been irritable or otherwise troublesome even a Free Companion may find herself at the foot of the couch looking forward to a pleasant night on the stones, stripped, with neither mat nor blanket, chained to the slave ring precisely as though she were a lowly slave girl. It is the Gorean way of reminding her, should she need to be reminded, that she, too, is a woman, and thus to be dominated, to be subject to men. Should she be tempted to forget this basic fact of Gorean life the slave ring set in the bottom of each Gorean couch is there to refresh her memory. Gor is a mans world."
Page 67 - Priest Kings of Gor

"The principle he had alluded to pertains to conduct in a free woman which is taken as sufficient to warrant her reduction to slavery. The most common application of this principle occurs in areas such as fraud or theft. Other applications may occur, for example, in cases of indigence and vagrancy. Prostitution, rare on Gor because of female slaves, is another case. The women are taken, enslaved, cleaned up and controlled. Indulgence in sensual dance is another case. Sensuous dance is almost always performed by slaves on Gor. A free woman who performs such dancing publicly is almost begging for the collar. In some cities the sentence of bondage is mandatory for such a woman."
Page 372 - Renegades of Gor

"Slave girls fear free women muchly. It is almost as if there was some unspoken war between them, almost as if they might be mortal enemies. In such a war, or such an enmity, of course, the slave girl is completely at the mercy of the free person; she is only slave. One of the great fears of a slave girl is that she will be sold to a woman. Free women treat their female slaves with incredible hatred and cruelty. Why this is I do not know. Some say it is because they, the free women, envy the girls their collars and wish that they, too, were collared, and at the complete mercy of masters."
Page 154 - Marauders of Gor

Tarnsman of Gor, page 41

There is no marriage, as we know it, on Gor, but there is the institute of the Free Companionship, which is its nearest correspondent. Surprisingly enough, a woman who is bought from her parents, for tarns or gold, is regarded as a Free Companion, even though she may not have been consulted in the transaction. More commendably, a free woman may herself, of her own free will, agree to be such a companion. And it is not unusual for a master to free one of his slave girls in order that she may share the full privileges of a Free Companionship. One may have, at a given time, an indefinite number of slaves, but only one Free Companion. Such relationships are not entered into lightly, and they are normally sundered only by death. Occasionally the Gorean, like his brothers in our world, perhaps even more frequently, learns the meaning of love.

Priest Kings of Gor, Pg. 67

"The Gorean Master, commonly, likes a spirited girl, one who fights the whip and collar, resisting until the last, perhaps months later, she is overwhelmed and must acknowledge herself his, utterly and without reservation, then fearing only that he might tire of her and sell her to another."

Assassin of Gor, Pg. 74
"Each of them I suspected would be intelligent, for Goreans, as the men of Earth commonly do not, celebrate quickness of mind and alertness in a girl."

Raiders of Gor, page 217

"Some call them forest girls," said Ute. "Other call them the panther girls, for they dress themselves in the teeth and skins of forest panthers, which they slay with their spears and bows."

I looked at her.

"They live in the forest without men," she said, "saving those they enslave, and then sell, when tiring of them. They shave the heads of their male slaves in that fashion to humiliate them. And that, too, is the way they sell them, that all the world may know that they fell slave to females, who then sold them."

"Who are these women?" I asked. "Where do they come from?"

"Some were doubtless once slaves," said Ute. "Others were once free women. Perhaps they did not care for matches arranged by their parents. Perhaps they did not care for the ways of their cities with respect to women. Who knows? In many cities a free woman may not even leave her dwelling, without the permission of a male guardian or member of her family." Ute smiled up at me. "In many cities a slave girl is more free to come and go, and be happy, then a free woman."

Captive of Gor p.83

It is not really a mystery that the Gorean slave girl, who is trained, seems to anticipate her master’s moods, and that he scarcely need ever speak of desire for her. She knows when he does not desire her, and when he does desire her, and when he does desire her, she signals her responsiveness to him, and goes to him. I smiled to myself. Men pay higher prices for trained slave girls. Some of them do not even understand fully the training the girl receives. They think commonly only in gross terms, such as her being trained in the dances of various cities, and in the arts of love, as practiced in various cities. They often do not know she is trained to read his desires, like an animal, from his body, and to serve them promptly, subtly and fervently. The trained girl is well worth her price.

Captive of Gor, page 343
"But," said Ute, "if a man seizes you, you are not to yield yourself to him, for you are white silk."

A flash of irritation passed through me. " I am charged with the protection of my market value?" I asked, ironically.

"Yes," said Ute, matter-of-factly. "Though I, if I were a man, would pay more for a red-silk girl."

"I must do nothing," I said, "to diminish the investment of Rask of Treve?"

"That is correct," said Ute.

"What if I am simply seized, and my attacker is not prepared to listen to reason?" I asked.

..."Cry out," said Ute, "and the others will take you from him and get him a red-silk girl."

Marauders of Gor Page 105

I looked down upon her.

"You are a wanton slave," I said.

She looked up at me laughing,

"A girl in a collar is not permitted inhibitions," she said.

It was true, slave girls must reveal their sexual nature, totally.

Do they not do so, they are beaten.

Marauders of Gor Pg. 278

Sometimes inert, esteemed Gorean free women cry out in rage, not understanding why their companions have forsaken them for the evening, to go to the paga tavern; there, of course, for the price of a cup of paga, he can get his hands on a silken, belled girl, a slave; the free woman must denounce her companion, crying out, for his lusts; too busy for this, however, are the sweet, dark-eyed, sensuous sluts of the paga tavern; they do not have time to denounce the lusts of their master's customers; they are too busy serving and satisfying them. The trainer directs the girl in the cage, or in the exercises, tending, observing, and prescribing, honing her with expertness into a delicious, responsive slave animal, the Gorean girl, collared, in bondage, trained to drive a man mad with desire, and then serve that desire, vulnerably, frequently and absolutely.

Tribesmen of Gor Pg. 27

"It is not uncommon for masters to pride themselves on the depth with which they know their slave girls; this strength is far greater in my opinion than that with which the average husband of earth knows his wife; The slave girl is not simply someone with whom the man lives; she is very special to him; she is a treasured possession; he owns her; he wants to know, profoundly and deeply, the background, history, the mind, the intelligence, the appetites, the nature, and the dispositions of his lovely article of property; this knowledge, of course puts her more at his mercy; by making impossible for him to manipulate her feelings, exploit weaknesses, drop asides, etc., she in the helpless condition of her slavery, gives him great power over her.

For example, it is common for a master to force his girl to speak at length and in detail to him of the secret sides of her nature, explaining and elaborating on her fantasies; if she is literate, she may be forced, naked, collared, on her knees at a small table, sometimes with her ankles shackled, to write them out; this supplies the master, of course, with abundandant materials, which may be used by him to make her further and more helplessly his; sometimes the girl attempts to deceive the master; it is not difficult to detect inauthenticity in such matters; she is then beaten; too, she may at times be ordered to invent fantasies, sometimes of a certain type; these too, for she has invented them, are, to an astute master, instructive; these intellectual, emotional exercises, performed by the girl under a condition of slavery, particularly if coupled with an enforced exercise regime, posings under male surveillance, and such, can do much to sensitize her to her collar; they awaken her body and, of equal importance for the Gorean, though not for the Earthling, who sees sex with the perception of a hippopotamus, as a matter of body rubbings, her fantastic imagination and mind; she becomes curious soon, about the deeper implications of what she is, a mere article of her master's property; then, with authority, with assurance and power, to the depth and height of her mind and imagination she is taught"

Tribesmen of Gor; pg 139

Love on Gor does not purchase a girl lenience; it does not mitigate her bondage, nor compromise her servitude, but rather renders it the more complete, the more helpless and abject.

Tribesmen of Gor Pg. 317

"Most female slaves," said Hassan, "walk very proudly. They are proud of their slavery, and their mastery by men. They have learned their womanhood. It has been taught to them. In their way, though imbonded, totally, I suppose they are the truest and freest of women. They are closest, perhaps, to the essentials of the female, those of subservience to the masculine will, obedience, service and pleasure. In being most themselves, utter slave, they are most free. This is paradoxical, to be sure. Most girls, verbally will object to slavery, but this half-hearted, pouting, ineffectual rhetoric is belied by the joy of their behavior. No girl who has not been a slave can understand the joy of it, the profundity and freedom. The objections of girls to slavery, I have noted, are usually not objections to the institution which, in the heat of their bodies, they love dearly, and fear to lose, but to a given Master. Given the proper master they are quite content. In the proper collar a woman is serene and joyful."

"Are slave girls truly proud?" asked Tarna.

"Most," said Hassan. "You may think only of girls you have dominated, or seraglio mistresses, presiding over male weaklings. But have you seen girls, truly, before men?"

"In a café, once," she said, "I saw a girl dance before men. She was scandalous! And the girls, too, who served, in the café! Shameful! Scandalous!"

"Did the girls seem proud?" asked Hassan.

"Yes," said Tarna, sullenly. "But why should they have been proud?"

"They were proud of their bodies, their feelings, their desirability," said Hassan, "and proud, too, of their masters, who had the will and power to put them in a collar and keep them there, because it pleased him to do so."

"How strong such men must be," whispered Tarna.

"Too," Hassan said, "undeniably females, secure in their sexuality, it was difficult for them not to be proud. Too, joy can make girls proud."

But why, why," wept Tarna "should they be proud?"

Hassan shrugged. "Because they knew themselves to be the most perfect and profound of women," he said. "that is why they are proud." Hassan laughed. "Sometimes," he said, "girls grow so proud it is necessary to whip them, to remind them that they are only slaves."

"I can walk proudly," said Tarna. "Lead me through the halls." She rose to her feet, and stood before us.

"There is a difference," laughed Hassan, "between the pride of a free woman and the pride of the slave girl. The pride of a freewoman is the pride of a woman who feels herself to be the equal of men. The pride of the slave girl is the pride of the girl who knows that no other woman is the equal to herself."

"You are no longer competing with men," said Hassan. "You are now something different"

Slave Girl of Gor - Pg 106

The veil, it might be noted, is not legally imperative for a free woman; it is rather a matter of modesty and custom. Some low-class, uncompanioned, free girls do not wear veils. Similarly certain bold free women neglect the veil. Neglect of the veil is not a crime in Gorean cities, though in some it is deemed a brazen and scandalous omission.

Sighs. I'm just gonna stop there. I'm realizing it'd be easier to try to list the ways SL Gorean RP Sims do reflect the books than how they don't...
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Re: Interrupting the Free?

Postby Qingwen » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:05 am

Depends on how the interruption is done and what's going on in the scene, I would think.
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Re: Interrupting the Free?

Postby Conall » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:00 am

To my understanding a slave does not dare to interrupt the free but approaches quietly, kneeling in nadu or tile position, waiting till she is noticed and spoken to. At that point she also may greet and ask for permission to speak. There would be many possibilities to roleplay it but its rarely done, sadly.

"Blood ran from my mouth; other blood I swallowed. My vision cleared; I could not believe the pounding of my heart. I had been cuffed. I knelt, terrified. At that time I did not realize how light had been my discipline considering the gravity of my offense. I had both spoken without permission, and broken position without permission. Most simply, I had been displeasing to a free man." Slave Girl of Gor Book 11 Page 34
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Re: Interrupting the Free?

Postby Tamar Luminos » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:48 am

The thing most people forget though, is that there are several instances that contradict quotes in the books when you're looking at specific things like this. And also, that this setting in the books wasn't meant to be roleplayed when he wrote the novels, and that the books aren't roleplay rulebooks. Honestly, there's too many variations and contradictions in many cases to pull one quote and use it rigidly in every single situation. Plus, how dull would that be, to expect everyone to do the exact same thing the exact same way every single time? I think that's why many SL Gor RP sims seem so stagnant and dull, to be honest- because some sims, and some people actually DO expect and demand that people do the exact same thing every single time in particular circumstances, and get upset OOC when someone's character does something out of the norm. I think somewhere along the way, we strangled the creativity out of the setting. There's not much leeway or freedom for people actually play vibrant, interesting characters in many cases.

That said, I am also stunned by how many sims and people don't seem to have a clue about the source material, and miss the mark by a mile for channeling even just the spirit of the books, instead focusing on meaningless minutia like "slaves must notecard chores" instead of having their slaver character test and train their slave characters how to read men, how to act and appear irresistibly attractive and desirable, how to tease, torment, and delight men. No wonder most people find the majority of slave characters dull- most slaver characters turn them into notecard automatons scrubbing floors. Whereas most people know the free women characters have all played slave characters before and were smart enough to give it up to play something more interesting- so of course the FW characters are more desirable, they're smarter and have more interesting roleplay. We've set it up like this, and it's been this way for so many years, this is how most players see "Gor", I think. And this is why when we hit the sims, for the most part we're disappointed and frustrated when we try to find the setting in the books. Because unless we luck out and find a small group of folks who know their stuff and are good roleplayers, it's just not there.
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Re: Interrupting the Free?

Postby JackoS » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:01 am

As a rule of thumb, a slave would never be allowed to interrupt a group of free engaged in a discussion or conversation. After all she is, from the gorean eye perspective, a slave, an animal, an object to be purchased, used, sold, discarded or killed. An from time to time, if its owner is a fool, freed.

However, if the slave is carrying a message of outmost importance she may approach, respectfully, with her head down, maybe kneel and ask for permission indicating she is carrying an important message from so and so.

Lets be honest, if there is a conversation in the books, a slave would not be iddle, see it and think *ohhhh that seems interesting and fun, lets go and see if i can throw my two bits*. That would never happen, how dare a simple, common slave, come up to the free thinking she can talk, and interact with the free as an equal...

Also if the matter at discussion is a matter of business, caste issues, state issues, lets remember that the books usually mark that slaves are not allowed, and usually removed from those important issues. I know this is going to be replied by many that it kills the roleplay for slaves, but unfortunately, that is what the slave role calls for.

However, what a slave can do is approach, kneel, ask for permission to talk and if allowed, talk, and if the free say to her *go away girl, kajira, slut whatever... this is a matter of free* then sorry, she would have to go

Hope this helps :D
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Re: Interrupting the Free?

Postby Sasi » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:57 am

My FW character will probably punish hard a slave who would dare to speak without having begged permission, even if she just greeted. But I will not ignore a slave player whose character emoted her approach and presence. She is just better to keep silent until I address her (which will not done nicely, anyway, I RP the typical FW who hates slave girls, perfectly aware that they catch men's attention, inwardly jealous). But I will always aknowledge the presence of a slave character and include her in my scene (and I won't send her away neither for tea...)

Also, it's a common mistake in SL Gor to think that a slave must absolutely greet. There are many situations in books where, when addressed by a free, a slave girl just drops to their knees, and often, if the free is a woman, puts her head on the ground as kajirae commonly fear FW.

At the end, all depends of the RPers you join.... Once you emoted your approach and presence, others should include you in their scene. It's not about being able to speak, when you start emoting, you must become part of the scene. If other people ignore you, don't bother, leave.
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Re: Interrupting the Free?

Postby JackoS » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Sasi is right on the approach... just come close, emote you approach with respect and see the reaction. However also bare in mind they might be discussing important or confidential matters that IC'ly no slave should be part of. For example, a group of warriors discussing and raid they are to make later against an enemy city. Clearly is something that IC'ly no slave should ever be part of. And not sure if OOC'ly they are interested in roleplaying with a slave either.

The only issue of course is, how they dismiss the slave. Usually my approach is to tell them we are busy with things that are not becoming in a kajira/bond.

Unfortunately not all scenes/sims are good for every character. That is why i always suggest choose your sim and character carefully.
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Re: Interrupting the Free?

Postby Sasi » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:34 pm

I think that before joining a scene, you should always wait a moment and just listen to know what is going on and if it's a scene you could join, where you would be welcome, but also, how join the scene in a proper way, well aware of the last actions emoted by the people already in the scene.

If the slave wants to spy, too, it's very fine, but she should emote still her presence around and stay in a realistic range and be aware of the risks.

If people don't want their little secrets being listened by slave's ears, they can simply stay in their private homes.
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Re: Interrupting the Free?

Postby Leah » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:41 pm

JackoS wrote:And not sure if OOC'ly they are interested in roleplaying with a slave either.

Generally speaking, no one is interested in roleplaying with a slave other than other slaves (and even then, it's iffy).
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